well obviously Israel is not going to accept anything that gets rid of an apartheid state. A unitary state is a goal that we have to campaign for to force the Israeli state to deZionise
Of my! Imagine! A let’s bash Corbyn piece. I’ve been seeing so many of these lately. Has he learned anything? So am guessing this is the new line. If the anti-semitism smears aren’t working any more, maybe it’s time to go for the, why didn’t he stand up against the anti-semitism smears. Yeah right, forget context, when people believed the genocidal regime’s hasbara, and it would have been political suicide. I can see some people are falling for it but there’s enough of us watching you now, to shine a light on your sickening ploys. Used against a man who transformed the membership of the Labour Party and could have won an anti-neoliberal, anti-Zionist election, but for the Zionist that have infested the right of the party. And the likes of you. We see you. Jog on.
Yes Lesley and that's why he has to be prepared along with the new party. We can't allow a replay of last time. Hero worship is for people who have nothing to say and are willing to put their faith in others. Corbyn has many good qualities but he doesn't do theory and therefore went along with the Zionists believing them to be good faith actors.
In particular he came out with a lot of nonsense about always recognising an Israeli state which he wouldn't have done about the Apartheid South African state. Socialism is about accountability and holding one's representatives to account.
Corbyns performance over 4 years as leader was dire and he ended up nominating Tom Watson for the House of Lords and getting Unite to vote against Open Selection. Is that what you want?
How exactly does the original post help with any of that? How does having a go at Corbyn on social media help at all? It looks exactly like a rerun of the media onslaught he faced before, that ended up losing an opportunity for an actual left of centre government.
I repeat in order to avoid the previous situation whereby Corbyn hauled up the white flag whenever attacks were made, we have to ensure our politics are clear from the outset and that means we are opposed to Zionism as a genocidal ideology. Lets take the debate onto their terrain and not become defensive as Corbyn was. Otherwise you are simply content to accept whatever is decided by those in control
I’m not disagreeing with this point. It is refreshing to see Sultana taking action. It is the tone of the post.
If you’re looking for cohesion not division, it is still fair to point out what you disagree with but in a way that doesn’t divide and undermine.
Corbyn has given hope to many on the left, and to focus on his faults and not give at least equal energy to the contribution he makes, is playing into the hands of those that want to divide.
I don’t believe Sultana yet has the power of rally people in the same way Corbyn has. So posts bringing out the same, let’s have a go at Corbyn energy, seem unhelpful to me.
A post focusing on what sultana brings to the party, and what that offers, without feeling a need to compare them, to my mind, would have been much more constructive piece.
I appreciate your willingness to engage in discussion.
Open your eyes and get out of your echo chamber: it will take a blind man not to see it. The left is fucked and no ones believes the conservatives any more. But stay complacent, it helps :)
We all hope that he had learnt. This seems to be last chance for him to do it right. However if he fails again, we all hope that Sultana and her team will not.
Excellent arguement as to why we must support Zarah Sultana as joint leader. We don't want to make the same mistakes on this fundamental issue that Corbyn made and continues today. Corbyn has appointed some of the same team as when he was leader, another bad move.
I don't intend to take any leaves from JC's book. JC is co-leader of the new party. Is one not supposed to criticise leaders? Now I wonder where that mentality derives from?
What does your one-state solution look like? Genuinely curious. Do the Jews leave? Does it get split into cantons like Switzerland? Do the ultra-Orthodox Jews and the Palestinians have a copulation contest to see who can retain a bare population majority?
the Jews who don't want to live in equality with Palestinians can leave. Those who can bear just to be equals instead of masters can stay. It will be a state where it doesn't matter which ethnicity has a majority since the state won't be based on race or ethnicity. Hard for your tiny Zionist mind to get to grips with but there you go
I'll ignore the insult, just to point out that after you are done hating on your Zionist relatives for not being as enlightened as you are, there are practical questions you are going to have to consider. There are lots of states where race and ethnicity don't matter, but where the majority enjoy certain privileges. For example, which days are government holidays? Do taxes support kashrut inspection? How about halal inspection? What's the primary language in K-12 education? Does it use a Canadian model for that?
There are people on the ground who are wondering what a democratic one-state solution would look like, mostly young. I've met many of them. None of them expect a significant number of Jews to go—well, where exactly? But it's as easy to have anti-Zionist fantasies as pro-Zionist fantasies from the Diaspora, now isn't it?
I don't hate anyone Andrew, I leave that to you Zionists as it is your field of expertise.
I support a democratic secular state so there will be no religious holidays as such. Likewise kosher and halal inspections will be for the religious authorities not the state, as it is in most countries. No taxes shouldn't support such inspections. People have to pay when they buy the meat.
There will be 2 languages of equal importance - Arabic and Hebrew - as there was (in theory anyway) b4 the apartheid Jewish Nation State Law of 2018.
How it will work out in practice I will leave to those who live in it but it's clear that a Jewish Supremacist state is a genocidal/ethnic cleansing state and as such cannot be allowed to continue.
No religious holidays? Last I looked the UK celebrated Christmas, Boxing Day, Easter Monday. Many things closed. Christmas is a work day in Israel. Yom Kippur is not.
Not everything can be solved by insulting Zionists.
As for equal language status, I agree and the Nation State Law is an abomination. But was that saying primary and secondary Ed will be fully bilingual? There are a handful of Israeli schools that do that, not sure it is scalable.
Xmas and Easter are secular holidays in all but name in Britain. Very few people go to church. In Israel at the moment all but a handful of secondary schools are segregated and of course the Arab sector is vastly underfunded.
The aim would be to integrate schools and possibly have tuition in English. Possibly bilingual. Where there is a will there is a way.
You are right. Not everything can be solved by insulting Zionists but quite a lot can be!
The point about Christmas is not that people attend church, but that business calendars revolve around official holidays. Do transport schedules change for Ramadan, Jewish Shabbat, or both? The fact you don’t recognize this shows how much you take the Christian schedule as secular, even without being Christian and living in a country with low church attendance. Of course, your suggestion of secondary school in English suggests you haven’t fully rid yourself of old colonialist habits.
There isn’t a ton of goodwill in the Middle East just now, and I don’t see you working to increase the supply.
Hi Tony I just read this interesting thread between you and Andrew and as an outsider who hasn’t spent too much time wondering what a secular state in Palestine could be, would be, should be there was plenty of food for thought - just to let you know, you came across as quite hostile to Andrew. Anyway my question is how do you demilitarise the region - especially the nuclear WMD?
“Those who can bear just to be equals instead of masters can stay” can we focus this policy at home first - eject the entire Etonian, neoliberal, Blair foundation, WEF stooges. Then concentrate our efforts on helping the rest of the world?
Not for me to say of course but I would suggest the Northern Ireland model is adopted for a period of time so neither Jewish or not can't outvote each other.
That’s just what Britain needs - a party representing our new immigrant class and a foreign war (no not Sudan, the other one with the Jewish folk our comrades don’t like). I can see that being the really popular.
Hi Tony, it's Liz. I've got no time for this pair of clowns, especially not after last time. Corbyn is a sectarian twat as well, refusing to be in a non aggression electoral pact with George Galloway (who as you know is very anti Zionist). 'Your Party' lol. Clownworld.
well obviously Israel is not going to accept anything that gets rid of an apartheid state. A unitary state is a goal that we have to campaign for to force the Israeli state to deZionise
no what? is that all you have to say>
I fear that Corbyn hasn't learnt anything from the genocide in Gaza and his past record of appeasement of the Zionists
Of my! Imagine! A let’s bash Corbyn piece. I’ve been seeing so many of these lately. Has he learned anything? So am guessing this is the new line. If the anti-semitism smears aren’t working any more, maybe it’s time to go for the, why didn’t he stand up against the anti-semitism smears. Yeah right, forget context, when people believed the genocidal regime’s hasbara, and it would have been political suicide. I can see some people are falling for it but there’s enough of us watching you now, to shine a light on your sickening ploys. Used against a man who transformed the membership of the Labour Party and could have won an anti-neoliberal, anti-Zionist election, but for the Zionist that have infested the right of the party. And the likes of you. We see you. Jog on.
I think it’s the Zionists who are out to get him
Yes Lesley and that's why he has to be prepared along with the new party. We can't allow a replay of last time. Hero worship is for people who have nothing to say and are willing to put their faith in others. Corbyn has many good qualities but he doesn't do theory and therefore went along with the Zionists believing them to be good faith actors.
In particular he came out with a lot of nonsense about always recognising an Israeli state which he wouldn't have done about the Apartheid South African state. Socialism is about accountability and holding one's representatives to account.
Corbyns performance over 4 years as leader was dire and he ended up nominating Tom Watson for the House of Lords and getting Unite to vote against Open Selection. Is that what you want?
How exactly does the original post help with any of that? How does having a go at Corbyn on social media help at all? It looks exactly like a rerun of the media onslaught he faced before, that ended up losing an opportunity for an actual left of centre government.
I repeat in order to avoid the previous situation whereby Corbyn hauled up the white flag whenever attacks were made, we have to ensure our politics are clear from the outset and that means we are opposed to Zionism as a genocidal ideology. Lets take the debate onto their terrain and not become defensive as Corbyn was. Otherwise you are simply content to accept whatever is decided by those in control
I’m not disagreeing with this point. It is refreshing to see Sultana taking action. It is the tone of the post.
If you’re looking for cohesion not division, it is still fair to point out what you disagree with but in a way that doesn’t divide and undermine.
Corbyn has given hope to many on the left, and to focus on his faults and not give at least equal energy to the contribution he makes, is playing into the hands of those that want to divide.
I don’t believe Sultana yet has the power of rally people in the same way Corbyn has. So posts bringing out the same, let’s have a go at Corbyn energy, seem unhelpful to me.
A post focusing on what sultana brings to the party, and what that offers, without feeling a need to compare them, to my mind, would have been much more constructive piece.
I appreciate your willingness to engage in discussion.
‘Zio’??? Good grief you will be calling normal old fashioned women ‘cis’ next. Gotta love the loony left.
The big issue is that reform are almost certainly the next government so dry your eyes princess and buckle in :)
Open your eyes and get out of your echo chamber: it will take a blind man not to see it. The left is fucked and no ones believes the conservatives any more. But stay complacent, it helps :)
I don’t think so
Well said Tony 👏👏👏
We all hope that he had learnt. This seems to be last chance for him to do it right. However if he fails again, we all hope that Sultana and her team will not.
Excellent arguement as to why we must support Zarah Sultana as joint leader. We don't want to make the same mistakes on this fundamental issue that Corbyn made and continues today. Corbyn has appointed some of the same team as when he was leader, another bad move.
How about you take a leaf out of JC’s book and stop personalising political issues.
I don't intend to take any leaves from JC's book. JC is co-leader of the new party. Is one not supposed to criticise leaders? Now I wonder where that mentality derives from?
Corbyn's capitulation to the antisemitism smears was a betrayal of the Left that had invested so much hope in his movement..
What does your one-state solution look like? Genuinely curious. Do the Jews leave? Does it get split into cantons like Switzerland? Do the ultra-Orthodox Jews and the Palestinians have a copulation contest to see who can retain a bare population majority?
the Jews who don't want to live in equality with Palestinians can leave. Those who can bear just to be equals instead of masters can stay. It will be a state where it doesn't matter which ethnicity has a majority since the state won't be based on race or ethnicity. Hard for your tiny Zionist mind to get to grips with but there you go
I'll ignore the insult, just to point out that after you are done hating on your Zionist relatives for not being as enlightened as you are, there are practical questions you are going to have to consider. There are lots of states where race and ethnicity don't matter, but where the majority enjoy certain privileges. For example, which days are government holidays? Do taxes support kashrut inspection? How about halal inspection? What's the primary language in K-12 education? Does it use a Canadian model for that?
There are people on the ground who are wondering what a democratic one-state solution would look like, mostly young. I've met many of them. None of them expect a significant number of Jews to go—well, where exactly? But it's as easy to have anti-Zionist fantasies as pro-Zionist fantasies from the Diaspora, now isn't it?
I don't hate anyone Andrew, I leave that to you Zionists as it is your field of expertise.
I support a democratic secular state so there will be no religious holidays as such. Likewise kosher and halal inspections will be for the religious authorities not the state, as it is in most countries. No taxes shouldn't support such inspections. People have to pay when they buy the meat.
There will be 2 languages of equal importance - Arabic and Hebrew - as there was (in theory anyway) b4 the apartheid Jewish Nation State Law of 2018.
How it will work out in practice I will leave to those who live in it but it's clear that a Jewish Supremacist state is a genocidal/ethnic cleansing state and as such cannot be allowed to continue.
No religious holidays? Last I looked the UK celebrated Christmas, Boxing Day, Easter Monday. Many things closed. Christmas is a work day in Israel. Yom Kippur is not.
Not everything can be solved by insulting Zionists.
As for equal language status, I agree and the Nation State Law is an abomination. But was that saying primary and secondary Ed will be fully bilingual? There are a handful of Israeli schools that do that, not sure it is scalable.
You oversimplify.
Xmas and Easter are secular holidays in all but name in Britain. Very few people go to church. In Israel at the moment all but a handful of secondary schools are segregated and of course the Arab sector is vastly underfunded.
The aim would be to integrate schools and possibly have tuition in English. Possibly bilingual. Where there is a will there is a way.
You are right. Not everything can be solved by insulting Zionists but quite a lot can be!
The point about Christmas is not that people attend church, but that business calendars revolve around official holidays. Do transport schedules change for Ramadan, Jewish Shabbat, or both? The fact you don’t recognize this shows how much you take the Christian schedule as secular, even without being Christian and living in a country with low church attendance. Of course, your suggestion of secondary school in English suggests you haven’t fully rid yourself of old colonialist habits.
There isn’t a ton of goodwill in the Middle East just now, and I don’t see you working to increase the supply.
Hi Tony I just read this interesting thread between you and Andrew and as an outsider who hasn’t spent too much time wondering what a secular state in Palestine could be, would be, should be there was plenty of food for thought - just to let you know, you came across as quite hostile to Andrew. Anyway my question is how do you demilitarise the region - especially the nuclear WMD?
Pipe down Tony, the chap was only asking a question. You activists, so touchy…
“Those who can bear just to be equals instead of masters can stay” can we focus this policy at home first - eject the entire Etonian, neoliberal, Blair foundation, WEF stooges. Then concentrate our efforts on helping the rest of the world?
Not for me to say of course but I would suggest the Northern Ireland model is adopted for a period of time so neither Jewish or not can't outvote each other.
Cosplay revolutionary says what?
LOL. A disproportionate number of cosplay revolutionaries are academics.
another generalisation with little or nothing to support it. Do you not have anything useful to say Andrew?
That’s just what Britain needs - a party representing our new immigrant class and a foreign war (no not Sudan, the other one with the Jewish folk our comrades don’t like). I can see that being the really popular.
What exactlt do you mean?
I see the zionists are at it again trying to bring down JC what’s wrong are you frightened? Your rhetoric will not work this time.🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
Hi Tony, it's Liz. I've got no time for this pair of clowns, especially not after last time. Corbyn is a sectarian twat as well, refusing to be in a non aggression electoral pact with George Galloway (who as you know is very anti Zionist). 'Your Party' lol. Clownworld.
Simple: No.
He is a coward who has a history of selling out his own supporters.
His/Their “new” party will be chock full of MI6 folks and zionists, and he will betray his strongest supporters and the Palestinian people.
He’s a sheepdog. He is an impediment to any real change, which would have to be principled and revolutionary at its core.
Corbyn offers neither.